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Old Jun 11, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00   #41
Ascalonian Squire
 
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Any other thoughts anyone?
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Old Jun 11, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14   #42
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I didn't read all the posts but...

/signed
/signed
/signed

Our faction is starting to pick up and I'd like to know who's doing it to get them to encourage others to do this. I'll restate, if you don't like what YOUR GUILD is doing with this information, then join a guild that has no plans on controlling a town. Simple enough.

/signed
Last edited by Helios; Jun 11, 2006 at 12:20 AM // 00:20..
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Old Jun 11, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20   #43
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/signed - but only for leader.
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Old Jun 11, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02   #44
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/signed
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Old Jun 16, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52   #45
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bumpage
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Old Jun 16, 2006, 09:26 AM // 09:26   #46
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/notsigned

In all honesty there is already a system in place that can help you, the titles system. Certainly it isn't very accurate, but if you want to start being discrimanatory that would be the place to start, rather than a monitoring system.

I think a lot of players need to start realising that the demographic playing GW isn't as restricted as many of you seem to think it is. There are a good deal of working professionals who play for fun, we even play in "competitive" guilds, and there is no reason fo us to be threatened by the boot because we were on the other side of the world attending a conference for a week or two.

This is a BAD idea. Unlike the guild I'm in, not all guilds know their players. Not all guilds know what they can expect from their players, or what their players expect from them. Your "tool" is a means of dividing an already fractured system. People who don't know the leader all that well may no longer able to game EASILY with their friends because they got kicked from the guild, and all for what? not being able to contribute the full 50k that week because they decided to do overtime or had an important exam?

You say this will ONLY effect competitive guilds, I think you wrong. Any guild will be able to use AND abuse this feature, and they WILL. Already there are guilds that invite members, insist they contribute to GH, GH features, etc, and then kick them. This is just another tool in their hands to "justify" their abuse of other players.

The long and the short of it is that if you don't trust that other players in your guild are contributing enough, you currently have the decision to kick them. The real world, and the workplace, is built largely on trust. I do NOT have a cam monitoring my every keystroke in the office, if my colleagues think that I am not pulling my weight they tell me so.
If your alliance/guild is not performing well (in faction tally) then someone is not contributing. It is up to you as a leader/officer to find out who, why, and how to better accomodate the necessities that player might think they need in order to help contribute. You don't need a sheet of numbers before you that you can use to walk all over someone who: 1) possibly doesn't know better, or 2) cannot contribute to your ridiculous expectations.

If you are a leader or an officer you should be able to motivate your members to contribute without waving the "boot" over their heads. If you think you can't manage to win a town without resorting to intimidation techniques then I think you don't deserve to own a town anyway.

Guild Wars is a TEAM game. TEAMS need TRUST. If you do not trust your guildies, then perhaps you are in the wrong guild.
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Old Jun 16, 2006, 09:28 AM // 09:28   #47
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Originally Posted by zhai
/signed - but only for leader.
Not just for leader, leader and officers, because in some cases.. the leader is slacking too.
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Old Jun 16, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19   #48
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Glad to see this back up on the first page, since it is a good idea and it would be nice if more people would give their input about it.

I was recently invited to join a town holding guild. I thought about it until I found out about the 5k per day faction quota. Since I would not be joining in order to have access to Warden it wasn't worth it(yes it was a guild in the oOo alliance won't say which). There is no reason for me to be in a guild that demands faction farming when I'd just be joining to be part of a larger group. So, I had to decline the offer. I hope it isn't held against me, the guys I talked to on TS were very nice and I would like to continue questing with them in the future. It just wasn't for me.

Don't join guilds that have a quota if you don't plan on contributing, that simple. It says a lot of things about your personal character to do something like that, even though it is a video game.

I like the idea of Faction races though. For guilds such as the one I joined(I disbanded my guild to do it), that could be lots of fun. With rewards like whoever wins gets to pick the next guild hall, or some such thing. In order for that to happen, there would have to be a way for the leader and officers to moniter it.
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Old Jun 16, 2006, 11:12 AM // 11:12   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
/notsigned

In all honesty there is already a system in place that can help you, the titles system. Certainly it isn't very accurate, but if you want to start being discrimanatory that would be the place to start, rather than a monitoring system.
You said it, titles are far too inaccurate to be useful. And who's to say that just because someone has a title that must mean that they will always contribute. For all we know he could have got that title months ago and not farmed since.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
I think a lot of players need to start realising that the demographic playing GW isn't as restricted as many of you seem to think it is. There are a good deal of working professionals who play for fun, we even play in "competitive" guilds, and there is no reason fo us to be threatened by the boot because we were on the other side of the world attending a conference for a week or two.
Surely most people would have the common sense to notify their leader that they're going to absent for a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
This is a BAD idea. Unlike the guild I'm in, not all guilds know their players. Not all guilds know what they can expect from their players, or what their players expect from them. Your "tool" is a means of dividing an already fractured system. People who don't know the leader all that well may no longer able to game EASILY with their friends because they got kicked from the guild, and all for what? not being able to contribute the full 50k that week because they decided to do overtime or had an important exam?
I don't know what other guilds do, but I always let the people I recruit know exactly what's expected of them, and even if they have a sudden memory lapse they could ask again or look on our site. Without any monitoring system though, I might as well not bother for all the empty promises that I've had. And again, people would surely notify their leader if they were going to be on less for the week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
You say this will ONLY effect competitive guilds, I think you wrong. Any guild will be able to use AND abuse this feature, and they WILL. Already there are guilds that invite members, insist they contribute to GH, GH features, etc, and then kick them. This is just another tool in their hands to "justify" their abuse of other players.
That's a bad example, as buying guild halls and guild hall upgrades is a one-time expenditure (unless you buy a new hall), whereas aquiring faction is a continuous process, due to the 10% degen every day. Only stupid guilds would recruit someone, get them to donate 10k faction and then kick them again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
The long and the short of it is that if you don't trust that other players in your guild are contributing enough, you currently have the decision to kick them. The real world, and the workplace, is built largely on trust. I do NOT have a cam monitoring my every keystroke in the office, if my colleagues think that I am not pulling my weight they tell me so.
If your alliance/guild is not performing well (in faction tally) then someone is not contributing. It is up to you as a leader/officer to find out who, why, and how to better accomodate the necessities that player might think they need in order to help contribute. You don't need a sheet of numbers before you that you can use to walk all over someone who: 1) possibly doesn't know better, or 2) cannot contribute to your ridiculous expectations.
Firstly, Guild Wars isn't like real life. Secondly, people don't get a salary for being in a guild, so there's no pressure to keep their place, or perform. Thridly, if you're in a guild with 60+ members, it's very hard to keep track of who's contributing and who isn't. Unless you are online ALL of the time and keep track of your faction total constantly, you'll never know who's given what. And If I were to question whether another player was doing anything, they can quite easily lie: 'Oh I already gave 5k today', and I would be none the wiser as I wouldn't know where our faction had come from. I could kick them, but then I might have been wrong. Say for example a guild has a requirment of 5k a day from every member, and 50k has been donated from 60 members, it's clear that a maximum of 20 have contributed. Leader asks who's donated, gets 40 replies of 'I have!', and he may have well not have asked for all the good it did.

The bottom line is that a large percentage of people who play guild wars are immature kids who don't understand/care about trust and commitment to a guild.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
then perhaps you are in the wrong guild.
There's the key phrase there. Again, this all comes down to the guild you're in. If you don't want to farm faction, then don't join a faction farming guild, simple as that.
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Old Jun 16, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40   #50
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/notsigned ... what if you dont own factions? Get booted cos youre not "contributing".. naa that sucks
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Old Jun 16, 2006, 02:06 PM // 14:06   #51
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Originally Posted by Slainster
/notsigned ... what if you dont own factions? Get booted cos youre not "contributing".. naa that sucks
I do not believe that is the case. When I recieved the invite from the guild I won't name, I asked a lot of questions. The representaive told me that there are people in the guild that do NOT have Factions and may never get it. They are not required to farm Faction, since they cannot. They are not kicked for that inability.

You shouldn't join a guild that wants contributions if you are not able to make any. It is not fair to these other people that will be pulling your weight.
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Old Jun 16, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03   #52
Bus
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/not signed

Grind for this much faction a week just so your stupid guild which has 95 members and is in a 10-guild alliance can see some fireworks and get a 25% discount at merchants or whatever
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Old Jun 16, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13   #53
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Surely most people would have the common sense to notify their leader that they're going to absent for a while.
...
The bottom line is that a large percentage of people who play guild wars are immature kids who don't understand/care about trust and commitment to a guild.
So immature players who have been raised in a society quite different to that which players like myself were raised in. I've noted the manners of the younger generation leave something to be desired, so therefore it would be assumed that they do not know or understand that this type of communication is important.

Quote:
That's a bad example, as buying guild halls and guild hall upgrades is a one-time expenditure (unless you buy a new hall), whereas aquiring faction is a continuous process, due to the 10% degen every day. Only stupid guilds would recruit someone, get them to donate 10k faction and then kick them again.
You missed my point here. Uber Farming Guild A invites Uber Faction Farmer B into the guild. Mr/Ms. B farms his butt off, but he doesn't get along with Player X who has been in the guild much longer. After contributing a decent amount of faction, Uber Faction Farmer B is kicked from the guild because Player X no longer wants him in the guild. Mr/Ms. B asks why he/she was kicked, and is told that they weren't farming enough faction. Now Mr/Ms. B is smart and knows that Guild A's faction is largly due to HIS/HER contributions. This annoys Mr/Ms. B because they provided for the guild and in the end, after winning the guild a town has now be kicked from the guild. Leader of Guild A says - "Hey on this day, another play contributed more faction therefore Mr/Ms. B had to be kicked." Certainly, Mr/Ms. B would have been kicked regardless of faction tally, but in the eyes of "competitive guilds" who justify their behaviour by such means Uber Farming Guild A will appear to have a completely clean record and Mr/Ms. B will look like a griefer if they say or do anything about it.

Quote:
I don't know what other guilds do, but I always let the people I recruit know exactly what's expected of them, and even if they have a sudden memory lapse they could ask again or look on our site. Without any monitoring system though, I might as well not bother for all the empty promises that I've had. And again, people would surely notify their leader if they were going to be on less for the week.
Do you really think you are the only one out there? Oh we promise to help player x with xx next time. We will donate xk to the storage/skills/merchant service next time, yet we don't have a monitoring system for any of these things. If a player who needs help consistantly doesn't get it, they have to have the courage to speak up about it, the officer/leader has to consider the merits of the case and decide what, if anything, has to be done about it.
If people refuse to contribute funds for important service X once again it is up to the officers and leaders to decide what to do about it. We don't have a system by which we say, hey player A contributed less to the merchant service than player B, kick player A. Why? Because we understand that every player has access to different funds and can't always contribute "equally". This does not mean they do not contribute.

Quote:
Firstly, Guild Wars isn't like real life. Secondly, people don't get a salary for being in a guild, so there's no pressure to keep their place, or perform. Thridly, if you're in a guild with 60+ members, it's very hard to keep track of who's contributing and who isn't. Unless you are online ALL of the time and keep track of your faction total constantly, you'll never know who's given what. And If I were to question whether another player was doing anything, they can quite easily lie: 'Oh I already gave 5k today', and I would be none the wiser as I wouldn't know where our faction had come from. I could kick them, but then I might have been wrong. Say for example a guild has a requirment of 5k a day from every member, and 50k has been donated from 60 members, it's clear that a maximum of 20 have contributed. Leader asks who's donated, gets 40 replies of 'I have!', and he may have well not have asked for all the good it did.
Please note that I was NOT the first one to draw the comparison to real life. If you don't like being repaid in kind you might want to think about removing it from your argument too.

[quote = Prince Daniel]...Any kind of organisation HAS to be able to monitor how people are contributing...[/quote]

Now before you get started I know perfectly well that this was not your post. However anyone who reads the entire thread will realise that both of you have very similar ideas on the subject and never once did you dispute his use of this statement. GW mirrors real life much closer than many players believe. In fact there have been a number of studies done as to HOW closely online games (particularly rpgs) mirror real life situations. There have even been suggestions of using "specially designed" online "games" to help "rehabilitate" people into society. But this is getting off-topic.

You believe that your guildies are lying to you. Certainly they are if they all say the contribute 50k a week and you have far less faction that 50k times the number of members you have (-10% per day). In fact my guild, indeed the alliance as a whole, was given quite a dressing down when we were greeted with the same response. We knew that people weren't fully contributing as much as we all would have liked, but the solution was not to sift through the numbers and victimise one player because they came in at the bottom of the tally. Instead we did all we could to make faction farming and AB FUN, to entice people into contributing. Guess what? It works. Our alliance holds a town most of the time. Sure there are times when contributions slip, but we don't wave hard numbers in front of our members. Guild members are people, not bots. There will be times when they get sick of FF or AB or whatever it is that you wish them to do, even in an uber competitive guild. Are YOU going to keep a tally of all those members who have had a bit too much of it all recently, keeping in mind that list might very well consist of over 50 people? Indeed from what you say, you don't know your members that well, there would be no way that you could keep that mental tally.

You want hard numbers so you can console yourself everytime you feel the need to boot someone,

Quote:
I could kick them, but then I might have been wrong...
that is your personal issue. How do you make a guild competitive without these measures, well I've already pointed that out. Even better, get to know your guild members, get your officers to know your guild members. Once you get to know people you would be amazed and how open many of the them may be, and how easy it will be for you to spot discrepencies in "apparent contributions". If you say you can't trust your officers... well one might wonder what they did to get their office in the first place...

My point is that competitive guilds do NOT need this. We are all doing just fine without it. It is just another tool to be abused by that large percentage of immature players you pointed out, who run around in the game.
Last edited by Lady Lozza; Jun 16, 2006 at 05:21 PM // 17:21..
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Old Jun 16, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28   #54
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/absence of caring
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Old Jun 17, 2006, 06:50 AM // 06:50   #55
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/signed ive given 40000 allready
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Old Jun 18, 2006, 09:54 AM // 09:54   #56
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Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
blahblahblahblah....
Anything I said in reply to that would just be repeating myself.
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Old Jun 18, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44   #57
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/signed for leaders and maybe officers
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Old Jun 18, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46   #58
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I see no reason why this should not be an added feature

/signed
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Old Jun 18, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56   #59
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/signed
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Old Jun 18, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38   #60
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/signed

I would love that since I do not like keep taking screenshots and uploading them constantly to prove that I do or do not contribute
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